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Post by radioflyer on Dec 22, 2008 15:13:58 GMT -5
Ok you'se guys and gals. I've been using various makes of knotless tapered leaders for a long long time. Got the hankerin' to start tying my own leaders and maybe even learning to tie furled leaders. I fish mostly stillwaters so I'm wondering if hand-tied leaders and/or furled would gather too much yucky gunk from the water's surface to make me quit and return to knotless...
...just wonderin'
rf
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Post by flyfishingpastor on Dec 22, 2008 17:35:02 GMT -5
Radio;
I've used furled leaders on my bamboo rods for a couple of years now and like them a lot. The ones I use (silk) require a dose of mucilin before you use them and if you're not very deliberate about put it on and rubbing it in pretty good, after 4-6 hours; it will start to sink on you. They (silk furled leaders) hold up to a season's fishing - and I fish a lot. Plus, they have a loop on both ends, so tippet changes are pretty quick.
I tried the braided leaders first and they made a HUGE splash when you were taking the line up for a backcast - would spook every fish in the stream - but I haven't had that problem with furled leaders. I haven't noticed them picking up any extra "gunk" from the water either.
I don't use furled leaders on graphite, nor on my fastest action bamboo rods. I learned to cast on graphite rods, so unless I'm paying attention, my tendency is to really "push" a rod on my forward cast, causing a wave in the line, which produces either really tight loops or tailing loops if I'm really off. I don't seem to have this problem with slower action rods. You can't overpower a slow-action rod and get usable results - at least I can't. I have to slow down my cast so much that I tend to have a much more rythmic cast and a bit more open loop and less tailing loops. I say all this to say that when my loops tail, the fly WILL get hung up on the furled leaders occasionally-at least on the silk furled leaders. I know what is happening when I get this so I pay more attention to line control, not pushing my forward cast.
Sorry, didn't mean to preach (occupational hazard). I really like furled leaders. On the lines I used 'em on; I just put one on in the spring, haven't broken one yet and really like the way they turn over a fly and do not cause a splash the way the braided leaders I tried did - that's the good side. The bad side is, at least with silk, (I don't know about any other kind) you have to "dress" them about 30 minutes before you fish them and if you're prone to tailing loops, SOMETIMES the fly will get hung up in them.
Hope that long-winded reply helped some!
Pat
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Post by krebsie on Dec 22, 2008 18:55:31 GMT -5
When I'm fishing salt I keep a spool of 50# 30# and 20# Andes line in the boat at all times. A single Snook, even one as small as 12", will fray a 50# bite tippet. So after each fish you need to inspect your leader and tippet to make sure that if Big Brother takes your fly next you won't have a tackle failure! When you purchase a tapered leader it will become shorter and shorter as the day goes on and you will loose your length. With a home made leader all you have to do is cut out the 3rd section and add a longer one, and your back to fishing. The basic construction of the leader weather for salt water or fresh is the same. I'll give you the lengths and you can insert whatever line sizes you want, just make sure that each segment gets smaller in diameter,so that the taper is achieved. 4'6" on the first segment 3'6" on the second 2'6" on the third and then your tippet, usually about 18". This should give you, when finished, around a 9'6" to 10' leader. Tie the first(50#) and second(30#) segments together using a blood knot. Then tie the third segment(20#) to the second(30#) using the same knot. Use plenty of line in the knot so that you use up some of the extra, or your leader will end up over 10'. When I'm on salt I use a 50# bite tippet and tie it to the 20# segment. I've found that the blood knot is really hard to tie at this location. I use the Double Uni-Knot at this point. A little secret when tying knots using different sized lines, if your tying 20# to 30#, if you make 7 turns with the 20# only make 5 or 6 turns with the 30#. This will balance out your knot. Make sure you wet the knot before you tighten them. Friction will burn the mono and make it week. If your tying 20# to 50#, make a large loop in the end of the 20#, essentially doubling it, and tie it as one piece to the 50#. Or you can simply use the Double Uni-Knot, it's a lot easier and faster. Once your leader is complete tie it to your fly line using a nail knot with a minimum of 7 turns, and make it tight. Instead of using a nail for the nail knot try using a small piece of the tube that comes with a can of WD-40. I recommend The Little Red Fishing Knot Book to everyone. Even if you know a lot of knots, some day you will come across a situation where you need something else. For example we were using a Monic fly line a couple years ago and the nail knot kept pulling the sheeting off the fly line, and just kept doing it no mater how we tied it. Every knot we tried failed. So I got out the book and tried an Albright knot, and we were back to fishing! This is the same leader assembly I use for all my rigs, from 2wt to 9wt, just varying the test of the mono 50, 30, 20 -- 20,12,6 -- 10,6, 4 how ever you choose to do it. Hope you can make it through all my babbling, it's really pretty easy but hard to explain. Krebsie
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Post by radioflyer on Dec 22, 2008 19:16:32 GMT -5
Pastor & Krebsie,
Thanks for the input! I"ve downloaded Leadercalc and have the formulas for leaders so now I just need to find the right reels of line/leader materials and start tying. The knotless leaders get expensive after awhile...especially when I'm bass fishing at the lake and in a good day am having to add tippet a half dozen times (surgeons knot works best for me here).
rf
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Post by phishphinder on Dec 22, 2008 21:56:40 GMT -5
RF, Dustin makes his own furled leaders. Maybe we can get him to make some at a meeting. I have one on my eight weight and like it. There are some websites that sell them for under five bucks. I'll look one up. By the way, when do you have time to use them.
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Post by radioflyer on Dec 23, 2008 7:45:27 GMT -5
Oh...my New Year's resolution is to take a couple days next year and fish. Two days might be blue-skyin' it though... rf
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Post by rstaight on Dec 23, 2008 12:13:05 GMT -5
Radio,
I use both tapered and knotted leaders. The knotted leaders tend to pick up gunk on ponds while it is no problem in moving water. So I mostly use tapered leaders on ponds and hand tied leaders on moving water.
Maxima has a nice leader kit. The one I have I recieved year before last for Christmas. It has 12 spools of mono that range from 25# down to 1#. It also comes with some nice instructions and formulas for 60-20-20 tapered leaders.
I have had an intrest in furled leaders for a little while but have never tried one. I did see some instructions on the internet one time for building a jig and making furled leaders.
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Post by flyfishingpastor on Dec 23, 2008 14:07:41 GMT -5
I was at a bamboo rod-makers gathering in Michigan last summer (I don't make them - just want to know how they are made and learn about tapers, etc.) and a guy there had a jig for furled leaders that used an electric drill - took him about 30 seconds to get the threads on the jig and about 5 seconds to make 'em. Pretty slick.
Pat
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Post by radioflyer on Dec 23, 2008 15:57:59 GMT -5
I've been perusing a furled leader bulletinboard for awhile and there are a LOT of resources for making furled leaders...but I do so much in this hobby already...so furling I'll wait for. Besides, I'm into the rodbuilding more than anything. Now I just need to find out how to roll my own graphite blanks...
rf
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Post by reelteacher on Dec 23, 2008 16:12:43 GMT -5
Hey Fellas, Great discussion and insights. I also build my own knotted tapered leaders for use in flowing water situations and use store bought tapered leader in ponds in the summer once the moss starts to rise. Sierra Outdoors generally has some great closeouts on tapered leaders this time of year as they prepare for the next best thing this spring. I purchased 10, 9 foot tapered leaders last year for $10. I gave many of them away throughout the summer as I encountered different anglers in need. I will probably do the same this year, it's a great way to help others and share with them ways to improve their fly casting success. In "American Angler" magazine, Volume 30, Issue 5 Fall 2007, there is an article called "Do the Twist" Author Craig Phillips describes a way to roll or twist your own furled leaders to any desired length and any desired strength. The best thing is that this method does not involve a complicated jig or even the need to build anything before making a leader. I have made use of an electric drill to speed up the leader making process and it works like a champ. The leaders this method produces are quick to make, high quality, have very low line memory and they last a long time. I would be glad to show the club how to make these at our next meeting in Feb. and bring copies of the article for everyone to have. You can make your leaders out of standard mono or fluorocarbon and they cost only a few pennies to make if you buy the large spools of line. I make mine out of either Trilene xl green mono or Berkley Vanish fluorocarbon. I use mono if I'm using a floating fly and fluorocarbon if I'm fishing below the surface since it has a greater density. The furled leaders I use primarily if I'm fishing for smallmouth in streams or rivers that don't have weeds or algae. The line is twisted together and so moss, algae and other flotsom and jetsom can get in between the lines and accumulate at the knot in the middle or at the leader-tippet connection. This isn't fun or easy to remove sometimes.
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Post by krebsie on Dec 23, 2008 18:07:01 GMT -5
Can someone explain how the connection is made from the furled leader to the tippet? Especially if you are tying several tippets on a day. Krebsie
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Post by flyfishingpastor on Dec 23, 2008 19:50:50 GMT -5
Krebsie;
The furled leaders I use already have loops tied into both ends. I just tie a perfection loop in the tippet and do a loop to loop connection.
Pat
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Post by reelteacher on Dec 24, 2008 7:41:12 GMT -5
Exactly... All the furled leaders I've ever used, made or seen have either a loop on both ends for the connections or they have a small metal ring in which to tie your tippet onto. Either way they are very easy to use and adding tippet is a snap.
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dave
New Member
Posts: 15
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Post by dave on Dec 24, 2008 16:53:54 GMT -5
I've only used knotted and knotless leaders since i started fly fishing. Can some one explain the advantages of a furled leader?
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Post by flyfishingpastor on Dec 25, 2008 0:04:02 GMT -5
Dave;
I'm no expert, probably Dustin & can add to this, but I can tell you how I'd answer your question (advantages over knotted/knotless leaders): durability, low-splash take-away and lay-down, changing tippets are a snap and I like the way they turn over a fly.
I tried them in the first place because a guy sent me a couple to try in response to a question about them on another board. I used furled leaders on 4 lines last year (3, 5, 6 & 7 wts.) and they have never let me down yet - AND they lasted an entire year. In that same time, when I've been brush-busting bass, I regularly change knotless leaders multiple times in a single day fishing. Even if you use the cheapest leaders (not always a great idea), that's 10-12 $ a day. Granted, I don't have to do that often, but the furled leaders I buy only cost about $7/$8 per and have lasted a year.
The only downside for me is that the ones I use are silk and I have to use mucilin to keep them floating for a day's fishing.
I'm a bit of a gear junkie, so I say if you haven't tried them, give 'em a try - if you don't like them you're not out a bunch of $ and you can always go back to the knotted/knotless leaders. That, plus, even the things I've tried that I don't care for (braided leaders, for instance) - I know WHY I don't like them.
Pat
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